Team of the week

[Raveen]

And this week the wheel of destiny has favoured Gandy by coming up Skaven (eugh)!

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0-16   Line, Skaven   50000   7   3   3   7      G   ASPM
0-2   Thrower, Skaven   70000   7   3   3   7   Pass, Sure Hands   GP   ASM
0-4   Gutter Runner   80000   9   2   4   7   Dodge   GA   SPM
0-2   Blitzer, Skaven   90000   7   3   3   8   Block   GS   APM
0-1   Rat Ogre   150000   6   5   2   8   Loner, Frenzy, Mighty Blow, Prehensile Tail, Wild Animal   S   GAPM


What can we say about the ratmen?

[notjarvis]

Never played them, but from the stats using the gutter runners and throwers, I could easily envisage a lightning fast passing/running game (Pass to MA 9! AG4 catchers with dodge providing a neat combination I expect).

Speed of movement being the key, get bogged down in bashy battles, and I think versus most teams you lose.

The linemen are very basic and lightly armoured though (MA 7 is good, but they are flimsy, and unskilled)

with only 2 blitzers with block and Str 3/2 throughout I really can't see them bashing too victory.

This would make me more tempted to get the rat ogre, if only as a wall to stop me being steamrollered in the middle of the park.

[Raveen]

The Rat Ogre is a useful way to suck up attention but I wouldn't choose it personally.

I'd also not bother with a thrower, just use Gutter Runners and build one as a ball retriever (sure hands, NoS, big hand on doubles) and the others as scoring machines (block, catch, sidestep).

Linerats are going to die so just buy more as and when you need them.

Stormvermin are essential and building at least one as a killer would be a smart plan, especially with claw on doubles. Also these guys and the RO are your only natural access to guard. Actually that's the best reason to take the RO, to beef up your line with a bit of guard with the first skill.

I'll leave Gandy to fill in how best to run the team because he's the expert. As far as defence goes, get those Gutter Runners and kill the fuckers.

[Gandalf]

Rat Ogre is fun at sucking up attention, and also makes your team just look cooler It also gives you have a chance of knocking people down. To some extent the Linemen are there to suck up attention too.

There's differing school of thoughts on how many gutter runners to have, since you can have up to 4. I think 2 is enough to have on the pitch at any one time, but I have recently bought a third. Not sure I will start with 3 though. It does make your team squishy. ST2 does make them fall over quite a bit... Block can help with that and also makes them better on defence, with their huge movement speed they can cover a lot of defensive area. Movement 9 is generally hilarious. I gave one of mine sprint too.

I like having a thrower. In fact I have 2 in my current line-up. They are only a bit more than linemen and are strictly better than them. Also they get access to more skills as standard.

[Raveen]

I really wouldn't want to scrimp on the Gutter Runners although if you play a Quarterback and Receiver game then maybe you can get away with 2 or 3 runners and a thrower. I'd rather play a running game though, because with 4 AG and dodge your GRs should be able to go anywhere, within reason. And let's face it, Skaven should be able to score in two turns or less

Popular wisdom has the Gutter Runner as one of the best pieces out of the box, second only to the Wood Elf Wardancer in terms of need to kill, so I'd want to get the lot ASAP personally. That might blow up in my face though as I'm just not that good at Elfball and keeping blocks received to a minimum.

[Wyld Karde]

Gandalf's league team has shown the risk inherant in only having two GRs.  They're sucking up most of the SPPs that come to his team which makes 'em prime crumping magnets.  If one or both of those guys are killed he's going to be in trouble.

[Raveen]

But how much of an issue is that? After all how many Skaven players can you legitimately expect to survive in the long term and therefore need SPPs?

I'd look to get a TD on each Stormvermin if at all possible (and with 3AG it's no hardship, trying it on my Flesh Golems was trying to say the least), and the thrower will slowly but surely build up pass SPPs if you bother with him.

On the subject of the thrower I still don't think I'd bother long term. With a starting team Sure Hands is invaluable (just ask a Chaos coach) but AG4 is almost as good (Percentage wise you're looking at 16.67% chance of failure for AG4 vs 11.11% for Sure hands... I think, Help me Gandy!). Apart from that Pass has the same argument as Sure Hands and the extra ST shouldn't come into play unless something goes wrong.

[Gandalf]

I think my 2 gutter runners have more SPP's than anyone else in the whole league.... no-one's managed to kill them yet :p It's out of fear of that happening that I bought a third. I think I used at least 1 SPP on making one of them harder to kill. I've seen games where people focus too much on my gutter runners, letting my rat ogre & friends bash it through the middle  With 4 gutter runners on the pitch, no such plan B exists.

Re: Stormvermin (Blitzer). I have one but he doesn't do much. At all. Still not entirely convinced they are worth the extra 40k.

On the subject of the thrower I still don't think I'd bother long term. With a starting team Sure Hands is invaluable (just ask a Chaos coach) but AG4 is almost as good (Percentage wise you're looking at 16.67% chance of failure for AG4 vs 11.11% for Sure hands... I think, Help me Gandy!). Apart from that Pass has the same argument as Sure Hands and the extra ST shouldn't come into play unless something goes wrong.

My thrower (The Brain) usually sits back in a quarterback-style position. He is often called upon to stop offences - the extra ST really helps here, eg I get to roll 2 dice against a goblin, or roll 1 dice against a normal ST3 guy. Often a gutter runner or 2 gets back to help with the block too - ST doesn't matter for that of course.

I think your numbers are right, though all you have to do is get Accurate as a skill then throw like an AG4 character anyway. I haven't played for over a month. We really should start playing again...

[Raveen]

I suspect that against more developed teams the Guard access on the Stormvermin (so sue me, I'm old!) would start to pay off. Certainly it's a pain to be down a die on every block against a high ST access team.

[Raveen]

It's F F F Friday!

And this time the wheel of fortune's come up with a doozy - it's the Chaos Pact!

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0-16   Marauder   50000   6   3   3   8      GSPM   A
0-1   Goblin Renegade   40000   6   2   3   7   Animosity, Dodge, Right Stuff, Stunty   AM   GSP
0-1   Skaven Renegade   50000   7   3   3   7   Animosity   GM   ASP
0-1   Dark Elf Renegade   70000   6   3   4   8   Animosity   GAM   SP
0-1   Chaos Troll   110000   4   5   1   9   Loner, Always Hungry, Mighty Blow, Really Stupid, Regeneration, Throw Team-Mate   S   GAPM
0-1   Chaos Ogre   140000   5   5   2   9   Loner, Bone-head, Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, Throw Team-mate    S   GAPM
0-1   Minotaur   150000   5   5   2   8   Loner, Frenzy, Horns, Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, Wild Animal   S   GAPM


That's 3 big guys and the option of a Dark Elf to Skaven/Goblin scoring partnership and the most versatile players you could want in the Marauders.

Very weak starting line up, probably more so than vanilla chaos because you have almost no useful skills but this is a team that'll develop in any way you want it to.

[Wyld Karde]

Wow.  I uh, I'm not sure what to make of this lineup.  Like basic Chaos they lack starting skills, so as Rav said they'll be slow starters.  The elfballing trio looks tempting, but they all have Animosity so that's gonna be a spanner in the works right there.  It'd be tempting to try taking all three big guys just to have some serious muscle in the center, but that's expensive for some unreliable players.
Still, the Marauders have decent stats with respectable armour and they have access to most of the skills on normal rolls plus mutations.  If you can get a bit of momentum going in your early matches you could develop this team in pretty much whichever direction suits your style, be it bashy, elfbally or something in between.
Not a team for beginners, I'd say.  Not sure I'd want to take 'em out for a spin myself, and I love coaching chaos teams.

[Raveen]

Worth pointing out that this team basically only exists to allow Jervis Johnson to make the chaos all stars as they appear in the fluff. Also with enough inducements I think you could get 6 big guys...

[notjarvis]

That makes sense I suppose.
The team looks all over the place, strange starting line up.

Playing a bit of elfball might be fun, but would be risky to put too much into, as Wyld says - Animosity is a bit of a pain.

Mind you if you take the three big guys they might form a decent wall that if you have a bit of luck in early games, should put a few players out of action.

[Wyld Karde]

I suppose if you really wanted some elfball options on the team you could look to the Marauders.  Sure, they only get agility skills on a doubles roll, but mutation access can cover some of that.  Extra Arm is a good mutation for ball handlers, Big Hand as well.  The base AG of 3 is at least not bad.  If you get lucky and roll a double when a Marauder levels up you can pick up a proper elfballing skill and play from that.  As with vanilla Chaos, it's all about early team development.
Three big guys in the middle is tempting for that solid wall of meat, but you're going to be looking at having them as basically passive obstacles much of the time.  Between the usual big guy thick headed/wild animal/really stupid problem and the fact that they all come with Loner it's likely they'll spend half the match standing around doing nothing except get in the way a bit.  They certainly wouldn't be much of an obstacle to the more nimble opposing teams.

[Raveen]

With passing and mutation access the marauders could be built into great throwers and animosity doesn't stop you catching so you have 3 catchers, a go anywhere, a go fast and an AG 4. I think that this team is designed to grow into the passing game, and that's how I'd develop them.

Also 3 big guys will put the fear of Nuffle into anyone, even if they mostly just stand there they'll be dominating the pitch. Add in a couple of control mutations (tentacles springs to mind) and you can force play to happen the way you want it even though the big guys may not move much.