Snotling Soda Punching Bag Cup - Week 1 13th Sept

[Raveen]

2nd half, Skaven quickly score after a pitch invasion. Rav receives and I get a free blitz turn on the kick-off. I had kicked far unfortunately, so I can't get my runners to the ball. I mark most of Rav's players minus a centaur and 2 hobgoblins and send 2-3 runners to go for the ball.

I think it would have been best to kick short here - if a blitz comes up then you can capitalise but even if it doesn't the Skaven want to be pressuring the ball straight away and forcing the slow team to score quicker than they want to. As it was the deep kick suited me because I was in no hurry so a couple of turns to get the ball into your half didn't bother me and made it less likely that you'd get a chance to score back.

Rav gets the ball onto a bull centaur. Thankfully the centaur does not have block or dodge. The skaven start going down one by one. My chances pretty much lie with my Wrestle Gutter Runner doing a 2-dice against block and nabbing the ball. I figure if I can get maybe 2-3 attempts with rerolls, that ball would go down. Alas, it did not, and that was the game!

Whilst your luck was undoubtedly abominable (gettit!) here's my thinking. Again, I wasn't in a hurry, I had plenty of time to cruise up the pitch. Whilst you could blitz the ball carrier there was little chance of you being able to then get the ball and get away. You had two gutter runners in the right area and one was tied down on the sidelines. If your wrestle runner got hold of the ball I had the players spare to hit him with a 3D Block Tackle (Mighty Blow) blitz (98.4% chance of succeeding with a reroll) and potentially remove him whilst also giving him a chance to remove himself.

End-of-league-thoughts on Skaven: Having played lots of goblins with Throw Team-mate, I regret not getting Grab on one of my Stormvermin. I think it would have resulted in in a better season for the rats and an All-Star Rat. The capacity to score in one turn can nullify a lot of bad coaching decisions and lets you play really cowardly against bashy teams. It's definitely what I'm getting on my vermin next time, even if I roll doubles.

Whilst I can see the utility of Grab I personally wouldn't build any team around the 1TTD. As you showed, there are too many rolls involved for it to be reliable (pick up, hand off, sequence of blocks turning up the correct values, dodges, GFIs). I think guard would help you just as much as it would give you more dice on those vital blocks and would be a better skill to have at all other times. Grab I can see as a third skill after Guard and MB on the Blitzers.

[lawastooshort]

Whilst I can see the utility of Grab I personally wouldn't build any team around the 1TTD. … I think guard would help you just as much as it would give you more dice on those vital blocks and would be a better skill to have at all other times. Grab I can see as a third skill after Guard and MB on the Blitzers.

I agree, especially about the all other times – up until the taking Grab as third skill bit.

(Of course, if you get a gutter runner roll a +MA, then sure why not, give him sprint, sure feet and two heads on a double... maybe)

[Raveen]

You would prefer tackle, la? I suspect I would.

[DaigaroOgami]

La always prefers Tackle.....

(That's what HE said....)

BOOM BOOM!!!!!!!!!

[Gandalf]

That got old for me quite a while ago....

Back on topic... I've never considered MB on the wood elves. Agility teams aren't there to cause injuries, it's a case of get the ball & score.

Maybe I'll get it as a 4th/5th skill on my Wardancers, but there are so many skills out there that are in keeping with the philosophy of such teams (ie, get the ball & score). Jump up, strip ball, tackle, side step... and that's after starting with block dodge and leap!

Agree with guard though, it can hold up opposition players & keep a scrum going while the rest of your players run rings around the opposition.

On a Stormvermin.... I think I would be looking at tackle, dodge, stand firm. Maybe MB as a 3rd or 4th skill.

[lawastooshort]

You would prefer tackle, la? I suspect I would.

I'd prefer MB/Tackle/Piling On, hoping for a double for Claw. At least for the first Blitzer to get that far. Then maybe MB/Tackle/Guard on the second, hoping for a double for Claw again.

It's a bit different for Skaven than the Underworld I have much more experience with, I admit, but Guard implies getting all up in a scrum, and you don't want that with your fragile players. And by the time you get Guard on two players, bashy teams will have it on 4, so it's not worth so much. What's worth more is mobile assists and carefully picking targets instead.

I'd certainly put Guard on linerats and Block Gutter Runners who roll doubles.

(although I realise that wasn't entirely the question - no, I wouldn't take Grab in the first 4 skills for a Storm Vermin)


But I'm not a Skaven expert by any means, I think I've only played 6 competitive games with them

[lawastooshort]

That got old for me quite a while ago....

Your lack of faith is disturbing, or whatever it is.

The thing is (for me if I'm feeling argumentative), without Storm Vermin, who have ST access and Mutations on a double, Skaven are pretty much just bad elves with gutter runners.

[Raveen]

My logic for a Skaven Blitzer:

1st: Guard - as only 2 players have natural S access you need the guard where you can get it.
2nd: Mighty Blow - again, you only have 2 chances to get it on the team and it'll help even the attrition game out. Also, if you roll a double you can get Claw and follow it with PO.
3rd: Tackle because Dodge needs to be countered and dodging players need to be hurt.
4th: PO or possibly Grab - because you don't want to PO with both blitzers at once most likely.
5th: Hope for a double but if not Dauntless.
6th: He's probably dead by now.

Obviously that wouldn't be the same for an Elf blitzer because the skill access is so different. No Elf has S access but they do get A access instead so you end up with Dodge, Leap, Jump Up, Side Step. Oh and no M access at all so there's no point building towards a Claw possibility (and even if you did I'd take MB on a double because it's better).

[DaigaroOgami]

Nope, not old for me.

And YOU went off topic, Rav started talking about La's Tackle.

Ooo Err Missus

Maybe I should've had the Carry On themed team.

And those Wardancers won't get 4th/5th skills... Percy has a bounty on their heads.

[Raveen]

I can't see how that's going to help.

[DaigaroOgami]

C'mon Rav, it's Percy...

THIS is his bounty...

[Gandalf]

And those Wardancers won't get 4th/5th skills... Percy has a bounty on their heads.

Hurry up, they've already got 3 each (well technically one of them has 2 and +MV).

@Rav it's been a while since I literally laughed out loud at something on an internet forum. Thanks for that
(I'm referring to your bounty post, not your promotions logic. :p)

[Gandalf]

The thing is (for me if I'm feeling argumentative), without Storm Vermin, who have ST access and Mutations on a double, Skaven are pretty much just bad elves with gutter runners.

Hmmm interesting, I hadn't thought of it like that. I suppose all the elf teams have their own "flavours"... I'd always thought of the Skaven's thing (well, they are pseudo-elves after all) as being a) fastest player in the game, and b) Big Guy (only 1 of the 4 elf teams have one). To be honest I never played with Stormvermin back in the day, but I didn't really understand the power of block back then.

As for this weekend - I would be happy to play a friendly against any of the non-playing teams. Preferably my Ogres but I don't mind fielding It's A Sign if my potential opponent would prefer.

[lawastooshort]

Well why I think they are bad elves or indeed pseudo elves is that they have no AG4 and widespread dodge access to disengage when defending (and so counter their AV7).

Also they do have a big guy, but he's rubbish. Maybe useful early on, but rubbish.


I might be up for a friendly (I'd like a game with my Undercheesers at some point before the league to remember what they are like) but may be too tired after sleeping on a hill Saturday.

[notjarvis]

Really sorry, but i can't make tonight. Got to pick up my parents and kids from the coach station and they are running very late.
Will not be online until 9:30 and thats probably too late