Rolling Thunder Forums

Just came across this. http://www.plasmoids.dk/NTBB2015.pdf What do you think?

I really like it.

Quite a few of the changes affect Ogres. Managing an experienced ogre team I think the changes are great and would alleviate some of the issues they had last season - by which I mean, lots of games where their chances were vanishingly remote even without considering the bonehead-mania that afflicted them in several games. I feel as a race, they should be aiming to win 10-20% of games vs. non-stunty teams with similar TV's. Last season out the TV they had was huge, in return for not very much (due to only having access S skills), taking 100k off that team value would still be high (hey, they're a low tier team after all) but not quite so insane. Snotling changes would mean they might actually be worth 20k, and not 0k which is probably their actual worth (according to the team calculator Rav linked to in another thread). With the extra +MV there's more chance of them managing to mark people (and score 1ttd). Sure they'll probably get smashed, but hey that's ST1 for you, and they wouldn't be snotlings if they didn't have ST1. Right stuff changes and AV6 will probably double their lifespan. Playing vs a block/tackle player is pretty disheartening as they just disappear off the pitch at an insane rate. So the ogres would get 5 boosts!!! And still be rubbish! Just not quite so rubbish. I approve.

The piling on/claw/foul changes look nice too. The whole cpomb skills go together a little bit too well at the moment.

Hoho - I haven't looked at these recently and am on my phone, so this is from memory.

The Right Stuff is negating Tackle, I believe - I think this is a lovely idea, but I think that's from the POV of an underworld coach: I don't know if it's fair.

I don't agree (yet?) with reducing ClawPOMB, but again it is hard to tell how much this is underworld/skaven coach talking. High TV chaos/nurgle teams are indeed scary things, but if they didn't exist there'd be more orc/lizard domination. And underworld especially but slightly skaven too need the combination to defend themselves. They would be weaker with the change.

What's the TV change?

I really think the best changes would be to balance TRR prices

Sorry for double post - phone - was going to suggest I have bbm ogre win stats but then saw you said non-stunty, so thought of the below. Ogres win 20% vs ClawPOMB teams, can't say about the TV:

http://www.cmanu.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/b ... stats.html

The Right Stuff is negating Tackle, I believe

yes that's right.

Ogres are not unreasonable at low TV. At high TV they get destroyed by teams with boring everyday skills like block and tackle, because the Ogre team don't have them. Snotlings especially become super-useless; at least the ogres have ST5, which gives them a fighting chance.

I think it would make the underworld a lot more competative... perhaps another tweak is required, maybe their goblins should cost 10k more.

What's the TV change?

It's what I suggested even before seeing this link! 10k off ogres and 10k off rerolls (seriously, 70k for a team that really really needs them....).

I don't agree with the underworld gobbo price suggestion, but then I wouldn't. I'd agree to 60k plus Two Heads though.

I certainly agree that weak teams shouldn't have 70k TRR, regardless of fluff.

I like the right stuff change and would happily take it into the main rules. I'd consider the CPoMb fix too. My logic here is that these changes would make some matches fun that are currently rubbish for at least one player (stunty vs Dwarf and anyone vs CPoMb kill team that destroys your players even if you win 5-0).

The rest is predicated on the concept that the current tiers are a bad thing and I'm not convinced of that (and the dodgy stats behind this don't help, check tff for various threads arguing that one).

When I played halflings I accepted that I was not going to win and made fun with them regardless. If you're having trouble at high tv, Gandalf, then you can either cut some bloated players or accept that you're playing a team that starts bad in a way that makes them worse

Yes, but if you win 5-0 you win, which is the object of the game.

When I played halflings I accepted that I was not going to win and made fun with them regardless. If you're having trouble at high tv, Gandalf, then you can either cut some bloated players or accept that you're playing a team that starts bad in a way that makes them worse

I try and have the same attitude with the ogres (but trust me, bonehead makes it harder... it's easier to accept a 6+ pass as part of some crazy play failing than watching your ogre just stand there doing nothing *and* losing their tackle zones). There's not really a huge amount of bloat in the team either (chucking a MV6 guard break tackle for a vanilla ogre... don't think it will help), plus it doesn't alleviate the snotling problem versus experienced teams. I think the fact that these revisions suggest *five* changes to the ogres shows quite how full of fail they are in the long-term. I'm not saying they should be competitive, just a little less uncompetitive

PS Goblins & Halfling teams don't really have these issues as they don't get to high TV in the first place!

lawastooshort wrote:Yes, but if you win 5-0 you win, which is the object of the game.

But if it was no fun then it's missing the point of playing a game in the first place.

And yes, ogres are utter shit by design and I'd like to see them brought up to the standards of the other two stunty teams but I'm yet to be convinced that tier 3 is too bad to be fun.