Development plan

[Raveen]

I did something similar for The Crush so I'll take a look and see what i think.

[Gandalf]

Just noticed the dark elf runner is down as a blitzer (!!), I'll move her to the runner/catcher category.

I'm sure the menu option was there last night but I'm not seeing it there from my work PC. I'll check it out again tonight but in the meantime the direct link is http://gandalfgames.net/bbdb/playersupertypelist.php

[Raveen]

http://www.talkfantasyfootball.org/view ... =4&t=38335

That thread has the player base types used in the creation of the rosters which would be good supertypes to use.

I'd certainly combine the trolls, ogres etc into Big Guys and I'd change the name of the High ST players to something less clunky. If advocate Blockers but I appreciate that there are good arguments against that.

[notjarvis]

I'd change the name of the High ST players to something less clunky. If advocate Blockers but I appreciate that there are good arguments against that.

Yeah but then where would the Bull Centaur and the Norse Ulfwerener live? There's no world where Blockers seems to fit their role.

[Raveen]

They're more like Blitzers to my mind but they don't match the usual Blitzer build of a lineman with block and extra MV/AV.

[Gandalf]

Haha, according to that link, if you ignore the minimum value, snotlings should be valued at 0k Sounds about right. Though if I could make tweaks to the Ogre roster I'd probably leave the snotlings be and take 10k off the cost of the ogres & rerolls. For more radical changes, I'd give them 0-2 goblins and see how that goes.

Regeneration being worth 30k ? I'd say it depends on if you have an apothacary or not. Vampires have both, but for Nurgle I see regeneration as half-compensation for not having an apothacary. Given the choice between the two I'd take the apoth any day. The pestigor is so overpriced for what he does (compared to, say, chaos beastmen), I think they put regen as being 30k just so he fits into their equation. The reality is, the pestigor costs so much because of what he provides that the rest of the team doesn't (basically, MV6), not because he has regeneration.

They split ST4 and ST3 players too, though they call them blockers. but yeah I'm with notj, I don't like the description "blockers".... they can be roadblocks (Khemri/Undead), part-time blitzers (Norse/CDwarf), something inbetween (Nurgle Warriors) or almost function as big fat linemen (lizardmen). Heck, the Chaos warriors can even be ball handlers, since they have the joint top AG on their team. It all depends on the supporting cast. I think High ST is descriptive enough but any other suggestions are welcome.

I'd certainly combine the trolls, ogres etc into Big Guys

Yeah, definitely a reasonable alternative. Anyone else have opinions here?

Another thing - Skeleton/Ghoul/Zombies - combine them into "undead linemen" ? I don't really want to lump them into "lineman", but if people think I'm being daft then I can reconsider.

Merge goblins and other stunties?

PS They have a redundant rule, given that in their descriptions, all AG4+ players are Agile and all ST4+ players are Blockers.

1) No team can have AG 4 and ST 4+ players (unless the ST 4+ players are a Big Guy or Vampire)
6) A team cannot have Agile player types and Blocker player types on the same roster.

Yeah! Spotting mistakes is a useful skill :-) (worth +20k I would say )

[Raveen]

Skeletons and zombies should be in with linemen. They are 0-16 positionable after all, and the undead team is an of exception there.

Ghouls are not linemen. They are catchers or runners depending on how you've divided those. They have AG skill access which sets them apart IMO.

Oh and that post was an attempt to write the rules down rather than being the hard and fast rules that were used for the rosters. So it's understandable that there's a mistake or two in there

[Raveen]

Further thoughts.

Why aren't goblins in with stunties? They fit there better than skinks do (skinks are definitely stunties for the record).

Why are elf linemen separated out? Seems like an odd distinction to make.

Dark elf runners are not Blitzers but Witch Elves totally are. Assassins arguably are Blitzers too but they're an oddity.

[Gandalf]

Skeletons and zombies should be in with linemen. They are 0-16 positionable after all, and the undead team is an of exception there.

Whilst I see the logic, I think they stand apart to most linemen, as a) they are not and do not particularly resemble men, and b) they are AG2. So they're sub-linemen as far as I can see. All other linemen are AG3, apart from dwarves, but they have AV & skills to make up for it. Oh, and related, c) you wouldn't compare a skeleton's achievements to that of most other linemen, because of their AG deficiencies, so put them in their own group(s) for easier comparison.

Why aren't goblins in with stunties? They fit there better than skinks do (skinks are definitely stunties for the record).

Because... there are multiple sorts of goblins, different races have them. Unlike the other stunties - ie I couldn't make a Skink category as there would only be 1 player type in there. I did suggest they could be merged 2 posts ago. More voices wanted to reach a consensus!

Ghouls are not linemen. They are catchers or runners depending on how you've divided those. They have AG skill access which sets them apart IMO.

OK I will put them in the runner/catcher group. BTW The line between runners & catchers is too blurry to separate them. I don't think any race has dedicated runners & dedicated catchers anyway.

Why are elf linemen separated out? Seems like an odd distinction to make.

Not odd at all! It's simply because they are AG4. They stand apart from your regular AG3 linemen. The lineman category is big enough as it is. Their feats are usually more impressive than your regular lineman, having a line elf score touchdowns or make passes is not rare. Indeed Altonmar the wood elf has 6 TD's, more than any lineman (which is a much bigger category). Plus, they're all elves so fit in a nice category in that sense.

Dark elf runners are not Blitzers but Witch Elves totally are. Assassins arguably are Blitzers too but they're an oddity.

I should create an oddity supertype. Vampires can go there too. Maybe underworld skaven linemen, as they don't really function as linemen in an underworld team.

PS Nurgle Pestigors. Blitzers? (horns & strength access) or Oddity?

[Raveen]

Pestigors are Blitzers in the context of the Nurgle team I think. Even though they're very similar to Beastmen which are linemen (mostly by default, if there were 6337 chaos linemen then Beastmen would be Blitzers happily).

Runners are a tricky bunch, you're right that many are catchers but some are more like throwers. I'm thinking Dark Elf and Dwarf and maybe others. The distinction of make is if they have P access then lump them in with throwers.

[Gandalf]

Possibly obvious but I'm not doing anything on BBDB at the moment. This is primarily because I'm trying to learn another language for employment reasons, and if I'm actively coding in multiple languages I get confused between them, not very helpful. This state of affairs will continue for at least another month.

I remain committed to getting BBDB released in an open-source repository by the end of the year.

[Raveen]

Seeing as I'm a bit rubbish at podcasting I haven't had detailed discussions with the NAF about BBDB. Would you like me to start up the conversation regarding them hosting (and continuing development on?) a version of BBDB in the future?

I assume that once the DB is up and running it would be possible to add BB2 games to it once you have a parser that can read it's logs?

Obviously BB1 is coming to the end of it's life and BB2 is going to be the main Cyanide format at some point so having the potential for BB2 integration alongside BB1 would be great.

I'm just splurting thoughts now to be honest.

[Gandalf]

Yes it has been designed in a modular way, so someone can write a BB2 (or BB3!) parser for the match & dice, and all the following stuff will still work...
- league tables
- team stats
- player stats
- match reports

... and so on.

I'm not sure if I would be the person to write that parser though. Less motivation to do stuff for something I'm not involved in.

You may have noticed in the standing data section, sometimes it refers to "Blood Bowl 1" - this is so a "Blood Bowl 2" entry can be added, eg if a player has different stats/skills in a new version of the game. So Black Orcs will still be Black Orcs whether they are in BB1 or BB2 but will show as having different stats in each game.

So in summary, yes please do contact the NAF about this