Percy's Evaluation and Realistic View System

[Raveen]

I'd be tempted to cut the skilless thrower at a saving of 90k.

You have a backup in the form of your Ag 4 catcher who should be able to quarterback in an emergency and I'd say 12 is a good number for this league. I'm guessing you've bought all you need to so any money you earn now is getting set aside. You can always petty cash a merc in if needed (or buy and cut a Linewoman).

Apart from that, more Block or Wrestle. You can get Blodge or Wrodge across the team and you should do it if you can. Spread the SPPs if you can. If your players are just getting pushed about then they won't need to roll armour.

I think the back half of the season will be better for you - no tackle to deal with at least and the Deamon's best weapon is nullified by your armour being 7 already.

[lawastooshort]

It's not an AG4 catcher but I'd agree the second thrower probably isn't necessary, unless you use it to be a linewoman with Leader (sparing some TV if you cut a reroll but not really much).

[DaigaroOgami]

Ha, the PERVs thread in full effect. Percy approves.

Percy has had a sit down with non other than this man:



And has some things to say:

1). Percy spent A LOT of time last season with his 'shrooms managing TV; and this season he's been in the office while the Black Stars have been piling on the TV. What he's seen (aside from one team being goblins and one not) is that the Black Stars are in a much better position to control the game themselves - basically not worring about TV and just piling in players/skills etc to get a team to work. So from this, I'd say to not worry about TV as such, because they're a new team and don't have any bloat to worry about yet.

2). It's hard to answer you questions without first knowing (which you probably don't want to share for all to see) your gameplan for the team - You mentioned being worried about bashing, but as far as I can tell Amazons should be played to bash the buggery out of the enemy. I'd probably hardly ever consider dodging anyone even though they all have dodge and only use it for the defensive blocking game. If you wanted to dodge a lot then (ergh) maybe another elf team would of suited you more?

3). I wouldn't get too downbeat about your lack of Tackle; you've only got the Lizards left this season who you will probably need it for; the rest it'll be a wasted skill doing bugger all. It's a league of young teams (apart from clear league favourites, the CheesePongers) and as Alan says, you cant win anything with kids. A few more level ups, keep building, nail the best tactics to suit the team and Percy reckons things will begin to look up.

Percy Out.

[Red Lion Three]

Thanks everyone :-)

It looks like the axe will be stayed for now. Interesting idea about the thrower; I'd never have thought of that.

Percy - re. "gameplan for the team": umm, I think 'gameplan' would be a strong word... it feels like the Amazons are a massive step up in management and complexity compared to the High Elves, who seemed to manage themselves. None of the elves started with dodge and only two had block, so my tactics basically consisted of giving players block and trying to knock over enough of the opposition to make a hole and run up the side. Not a very complicated plan... the Amazons seem to require a lot more understanding of choice of skills and tactics (or perhaps I was just doing the wrong thing with the Elves and having more success ?!?). My gameplan with the Zons, such as it is, is basically a combination of the Amazon player descriptions on bbtactics + (and here is the crucial secret ingredient, which will in time give the team an air of unpredictable mystique) forgetfulness, which means departing from the textbook plan. An effect, perhaps, that is not unknown to a goblin 'shroom expert...

[Gandalf]

I think 13 players is fine. Heck I've got 13 and I'm AV8 (but then 40k isn't much money). I would probably have given them other skills besides block as you already have block skills - but agree that doesn't make them useless, you should keep them.

Sometimes when it comes to giving skills out I look at who I'm playing in the next few matches... given you had Skaven & Vampires - both of whom have several players with dodge - I might've given one or two of them Tackle. I recommend having one player with Tackle & Wrestle - they are great at getting the ball loose. Dodge goes well with that build idea too.

I think there are some strategy things you are still learning about, eg you probably would've beaten me in the cup last year if you had stalled rather than scoring as soon as you could've. And the mechanics of pushing players off the pitch is new to you too. Then there's tactical things - what are you trying to achieve in the next turn or two - and work towards that. It also seems from the above that you are having trouble defending. To be honest that's one of the hardest things, it's definitely more difficult than attacking, you have to cover lots of things whereas the attacker just needs to find 1 point of weakness. It might be work reading up on some defensive formations?

Don't underplay your bad luck though, the stats seem to show you've had quite a bit of that this season.... and if the Vampires only fail 3 bloodlusts all game then they are going to win most of the time against anyone.

[lawastooshort]

Next week after catch up week there is…

(bear in mind that there is a friendly to take place which will change the TV difference slightly, possibly)

Lizards vs Khorne
The rookie coach on a winning streak against the more experienced coach on a downward spiral. One of the STrengthiest teams in the league against the one with the most ST boosts – both permanent and Horned. If you add up the ST of the first 11s, they are actually even – so the Khorne have the edge with their Horns. They have the ability to do more precision ST, whereas the Lizards have the weakest players and need to protect them.

Teams
There’s 190TV difference. Apothecary and babe for the Lizards is a conservative choice which would look after the team a bit in the long run. If you wanted to win now though, you’d take a wizard. Of course, winning means more SPP and money, so is also better in the long run.

The Khorne team is starting to look mean. A bit of Block and Guard means they’re more solid and reliable, and Amy Whinehouse will get 2d or even 3d blocks against any ball carrier she can get to with only a 1/36 chance of not getting the ball loose (she has Strip Ball and no Lizard has Sure Hands yet). The Lizards need to watch out for her! Then of course there is the big Demon, whose Claw is the natural enemy of the Saurus and who can move mostly wherever he wants. And there is the Frenzy everywhere, making the sidelines extremely unsafe.

Against that the Lizards have over half the team ST4 or more, but not many basic skills yet. They can make a nice tough line, but if the Khorne keep mobile they can get their higher strength/Horned players to get favourable blocks on the Saurus.

The Lizards do have the advantage of Massive Speed though – three players on the pitch will be able to move 8, and probably 10 (although they shouldn’t risk GFIing often even with Sure Feet…). They could use this to switch flanks, protect the ball, run-handof-run the ball 16 squares in a turn, get mobile assists to make favourable blocks, all sorts of useful stuff. They also have Stunty Dodging to add to this Massive Speed, but should be restrained in using it and assume it will fail.

Game - Khorne
I’d definitely want to Receive if I was Khorne. They’ve got the superior bashing power, and if they can bash the skinks off the pitch they’ll gain a huge advantage.

So I’d receive first if I had the choice, get the ball secure in a wizard-proof cage/screen combo, and try to get players in contact with the skinks (to force them to do risky dodges or take 2d blocks which Frenzy could use to push them towards the sidelines and off the pitch) whilst also trying to use my blitz to take out skinks first and Sauruses second, depending which is available.

The survival of the skinks would be the thing guiding how long I took to score. Ideally it’ll be an 8 turn grind, smashing lizards into the dust. But if the skinks were all off the pitch KO’d or worse by turn 4 it would be very tempting to Kick off and then pressurise the Lizards, possibly getting a defensive touchdown and more or less securing the win with 2-0 at half time.

If I had to Kick first – we’d get to see Big Shiny Demon kicking, which everyone enjoys. After that, I’d defend quite aggressively whilst trying not to leave important players in contact with the Sauruses. I’d be happy with rookie Pit Fighters in contact with them as the Saurus would have to take an unskilled 2d block, which can go wrong and should certainly not be an early-turn action. I’d defend quite aggressively because Frenzy can push the Lizards around, out of position, messing up their cage/screen. Also, if Amy Whinehouse can get a shot on the ballcarrier it’s going to really mess up the Lizards’ drive, especially if Khorne plan for the loose ball. Of course, the most important action each turn would be Big Shiny’s blitz – I think priorities for this should be taking out skinks or going hard for the ball.

If the Lizards score before turn 7, then Khorne has a good chance of equalising before half time.

The joker in all this is the wizard which can but doesn’t always (it can fail or be protected against) mess up the other player’s strategic control of things.

Game - Lizards
I think Lizards is a bit more tricky, but a lot of that is my unfamiliarity with Lizards. I’d be quite aware of three things: I have the speed advantage; I really don’t want my skinks to die because otherwise the ball is not easy to pick up or move around; and Khorne can outbash me, particularly if I go near the sidelines with all their Frenzy.

If Lizards get outbashed in the first half, they might not have enough players left in the second half to do what they need to do.

So should they Kick in the first half, as they’ll have more numbers and can defend better? Or Receive first, so that they have the initiative and can possibly limit the bashing Khorne gets to do?

What I’d ideally want to do is Receive and take 7 turns to score (or less – relying on the wizard to stop the Khorne first half equaliser). But I don’t know if the Lizards have the skills to be confident in doing this.

So I think I’d prefer to Kick, defend solidly with a wall of ST4 Saurus, keep the skinks protected and the sidelines clear, and try to hold off the Khorne or force them into a too-quick score. I’d also remember that a lightning bolt and skink combination could lead to a defensive touchdown if the Khorne got a bit vulnerable. I’d also consider sacrificing a couple of (or even 3) skinks to pressurise the ball before it got in a cage, if the chance came up and I had spare skinks. I’d consider this hard – it could lead to a defensive touchdown or it could lead to all 3 skinks leaving the pitch. if I was Khorne and there was one last skink alive and it was on the floor surrounded by half a dozen Khornes, I’d respect its face off.

If I had to Receive, I’d try to get the ball secure and screened off early, then bash my way in a controlled fashion up the pitch, keeping a couple of squares between the screen and the ballcarrier at all times. It’s difficult to screen off the ball and keep away from the sidelines, so I’d probably make a bit of a cage around it too. With all the Frenzy on the Khornes, double protecting the ball is a very good idea…

So
So – if Lizards Receive and take 7/8 turns to score, Khorne probably won’t equalise and Lizards can win if Khorne leave them time and skinks to score back at the end of the second half.

If Khorne Receive in the first half, the result probably depends on the number of skinks left and the wizard…

[notjarvis]

Game - Lizards
I think Lizards is a bit more tricky, but a lot of that is my unfamiliarity with Lizards. I’d be quite aware of three things: I have the speed advantage; I really don’t want my skinks to die because otherwise the ball is not easy to pick up or move around; and Khorne can outbash me, particularly if I go near the sidelines with all their Frenzy.

Notjarvis's Points on Lizards.

Attacking
Scoring with Lizards is relatively easy in the normal case.

Get the ball in your half about half way up in as safe a position as possible.

Run two or more skinks split up into the opponents Half (two should be enough, probably up the sides - but be aware of Frenzy!) It's important to make sure you put Saurus's next to them Screening them from enemies, skinks are so fast they only need to be 3 or 4 squares in too.

Your opponent is left with two options, try to block the skinks in his half, which will take at least two players each to be effective (One could be knocked away easily by the lurking Saurus), or try to get to the ball (You should try to screen the ball and keep it in around the middle of your half until ready to strike).

When ready to strike - Block any defenders away from your skink in the opponents half, you intend to score with, run and do a handoff to him and run to score (Handoffs important, Skinks are terrible passers - always try handoff if possible.). Do the minimum blocks and dice rolls possible. IF your intending to score this turn do that first (only stand up felled saurus's before that)
Normal Caging and all that nonsense is not really for Lizards, unless you really get bogged down.

Defending is all about the strength (on a related note Block block block for the saurii as skills, only on second pick get stuff like break tackle, MB etc.) 6 ST4 players are hard to get around. They are quite tough to , so from my point of view getting base to base contact on ST3 players and Ball handlers is key. If you have a chance of getting a couple of saurii next to a ball seize it, make your opponent roll more and more dice to do anything with the ball, although keep 1 or two saurii lurking for anyone who gets through your lines.

Skinks defending should only be used as assists on blocks, or lurking behind to pick up any scattered balls, never end the turn with your skinks in base to base contact with opponents. Make them blitz if they want to hurt your skinks, which they will never do if the SaurII are the biggest threat to the ball..
With my team I managed to get a skink with wrestle and one with block, who were used as reserve defenders, but I wouldn't bother using them that way unless you can get those skills.

If you think there's a chance the ball will get free get a skink lurking in your opponents half, a turn earlier if you can. It's a shock for your opponent if you blitz the ball carrier in your half with the Saurus's, pickup the ball with a lurking skink and hand it off to another to score all in the same turn..

What I’d ideally want to do is Receive and take 7 turns to score (or less – relying on the wizard to stop the Khorne first half equaliser). But I don’t know if the Lizards have the skills to be confident in doing this.

This makes sense for other races - but I'd say no for Lizards (and this is my personal opinion).
A goal in the bag is always there. From my point of view, always aim to score fast as Lizards, always receive if you can and aim to score early.
Scoreboard pressure makes your opponent push harder, feel his has to score back this half and this is where the ball gets exposed. This in my opinion is your best chance to score a second which will dominate the game.
Also with quick scores he will find it harder to get rid of all the skinks. You will probably lose 1 skink from the field on every other turn whilst attacking as your opponent will concentrate on blitzing them every turn or so which can leave you in an awful position, getting left with 1 skink is an awful position for Lizards, as you are left with none of the flexibility.

Remember you can almost always score in two turns, from anywhere within about 2/3 of the pitch, as long as you have 2-3 skinks even if your opponent has the ball.



tl;dr
Use Saurus's for hitting Skinks for ball carrying. Always think of scoring. Goals Goals Goals will win you the game.

[lawastooshort]

That’s good advice NJ.

I said that I wouldn’t be confident receiving with (particularly these fairly rookie) Lizards (particularly against these mean Khorne) and grinding out an 8 turn touchdown, but I have been very effectively 8 turn stalled by Lizards before, pummelled into a corner and bashed by 6 Saurus and the Kroxigor…

[notjarvis]

Thanks la.
I'd agree grinding with Lizards is not really the way, hit and move is more the way, mobility is key, and Most of the Blocks you want to be make should be clearing paths for your skinks and supporting Saurii to run through.

With my team I managed to get a skink with wrestle and one with block, who were used as reserve defenders, but I wouldn't bother using them that way unless you can get those skills.

One thing I forgot to mention

wrestle is good for getting ball off players with block, and a skink with it can be a surprise, especially if the player thought he was clear of defenders, a MA8 skink and a helper or two can catch up with someone and get the ball.

Its a waste on a saurus though as you want your Saurus's on their feet as much as possible, just a nice surprise for a skink to have.

[Raveen]

Wrestle is a great skill for a sweeper type defensive player. I considered it for my second Thro-Ra with the Khemri with a view to using him as a third Blitzer. In the end though he needed to run the ball often enough that it wasn't worth the risk (wrestle on a ball carrier is a bad idea).

[DaigaroOgami]

[notjarvis]

I'm very much amused that 5 games so far have yielded a grand total of 12 Star player points for my team.
Considering you get 5 SPP for Most valuable player each game this is quite the Achievement.

I have 9 players left, and 5 of them are on 0 SPP, and no-one on Level 2.

I'm kindof tempted to sack anyone who has the temerity to get to Level 2 as not fitting in with the Team Ethos

Wondering what the lowest my TV will drop to is

;-)

[id3nt1ty]

And yet you are still fourth in the table

[notjarvis]

Anyway the Serious point of posting in this thread.

I have nine players, and 60k
I currently have
Troll 3 BO 4 Blitzers 1 Goblin.

My final Team sheet was planned to be
Troll 4 BO, 4 Blitzres 2 Throwers and 2 Goblins.

I can't afford a new thrower or Black Orc.

It's a matter of principle my Orc team will have no lineman (except when forced to as Mercs)

So the choice is - do I save for another game and take two Merc Linemen in with me for the next game?
Or buy a second goblin. now?


But 2 goblins now would leave me Light on Strength, but buying one for the next game would mean

- I would have slightly less chance of losing MVP on a merc
- Would actually mean my TV for the next game would be lower giving me an extra 10K in Inducements.

Hmmmm.....
I'm Erring on saving for a new thrower, and going into the next match with 9 rostered players- the way my winnings have been going, I wouldn't be guaranteed to afford a Thrower for the game after otherwise.

[notjarvis]

And yet you are still fourth in the table

>:D
My two wins have been a little lucky to be entirely honest with dice failing my opponents at crucial moment s